Chris Strom:
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of the RevOps Hero Podcast. On today's episode, I have with me Ada Tsang, and we'll be talking about enterprise ABM. So Ada, thanks for coming on. Tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do in Enterprise ABM, how you got into it as well.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, thanks so much, Chris. Thanks for having me here today. I'm very excited to talk about Enterprise ABM with all of you. So I actually started marketing for about 10 years ago. This might be a little unbelievable to say, but I've been doing ABM before it was an official category with all these platforms and products and all these amazing technologies we have now because at the core of it, ABM is really a principle of creating targeted programs against a common set of accounts, whether it's based on your pain point and challenges. So as a marketer, that's always been my principle. And yeah, I was very lucky to be an ABM and demand gen across MarTech, FinTech, selling HR software, professional services, and most recently building out customer ABM at Demandbase. Yeah, really excited to dive in and talk more about the topic.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, me as well here. So to start off with, we'll first talk about what is ABM? What is enterprise ABM specifically? You gave a brief description just now, but let's talk a little bit more about what it is and what the components are.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I always feel that Enterprise ABM is the holy grail of large accounts that you want to win as a company. So these are long deal cycles, six months minimum. It can go up to one year to two years. These are usually six figure deals. It can be broken out from at least $100,000 ARR on the low end and can go up to $2 million ARR on the high end. So the total contract value is usually at minimum around half a million dollars and I've seen some go up to $8 million total contract value. So these are strategic logos that if you win them, it will fundamentally change your company. Usually, again, you're also working very side by side with sales, ABM, and especially enterprise ABM. It's a full team effort.
We're marketers, we're not the ones in the room talking to prospects, so working with sales and sales enablement is very important. The other thing is that these are usually global companies that you could be selling to. So they have very large buying committees, global teams with different budgets, priorities. It's very hard to get their attention, very hard to get in the door because everyone is trying to sell to them. So yeah, these are very concerted marketing and sales efforts. It's great for mid-market companies wanting to move upmarket, and there's also enterprise companies who want to also sell into more enterprise accounts. That's the 45-second spiel of enterprise ABM. I can go on for a long time about it.
Chris Strom:
Probably the best way to go into more details on it is probably to go into a specific story of a big ABM campaign that you had planned and rolled out. So let's talk about that a little bit. I know there's a couple different steps in the whole process we'll go through. Tell us a little bit about this specific ABM campaign story, what the campaign is, and then we'll go into the first step of it that you did, which is the research and strategy development part.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, so a bit of background. At high level, Alicia Hale, the VP of marketing at Demandbase at the time, love her, she had an hypothesis if we're doing ABM to acquire new business, will it work the same way if we're putting the same resources and similar strategies towards customer and customer ABM? So this could include customer renewal, expansion, and new business into global subsidiaries. And we always say that it costs more to acquire a new customer than is to keep a customer. So this was the original hypothesis of the program and yeah, it was a very long process, required many steps, but yeah, I'm excited to dive in deeper on that.
Chris Strom:
So tell us about the first step where you did the initial research, strategy development and planning.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, so I was brought on to really hypothesize whether this could actually work. So we built it as more of a pilot program at first. So first step was really the discovery, talking to the key account reps, talking to product marketing, partner marketing, talking to past executives, talking to our customers to really discover what was holding up deals, why did we win or lose, what qualitative information can we get that can help us find opportunities for expansion? Do we have content gaps? Do we have maybe they didn't even know that we existed? What can we see from this discovery process? So that was the qualitative part, just talking to everybody.
The second part was the data analysis. Now we look at the historicals, the trend trends, the engagement signals, the win/loss reason. Did anyone boomerang come back? Why did they do that? So this told us to our segmentation, which accounts had the highest opportunity for customer expansion. This helped us with our account selection. This gave us areas opportunities for us to then form the overall strategy of how we were going to go about building a net new customer ABM program.
Chris Strom:
And what were some of the specific insights or goals or learnings did you get from talking with all the stakeholders and looking at all that historical data?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, there were definitely quite a few. One was that we actually didn't have everybody working out of the same system and targeting the same accounts. And this I see a lot in enterprise ABM. So a lot of silos between marketing and sales and all the different tools and tech stack that we have, which I'm sure you would know and see a lot in RevOps. So that was one operational issue.
The second, and I see this a lot as well, is that a lot of the content that your marketing team or demand gen team creates for new business and for the rest of your segments, they don't always actually apply to enterprise. And that's because they have much more unique challenges. They have, again, global teams, teams that are really spread out and why they buy your product or service or SaaS is very different from a mid-market company or an SMB company.
So we found a really large content gap that a lot of our content was not speaking to the challenges and use cases of our enterprise accounts. Yeah, those I would say are the top two. I can't give up too many secrets.
Chris Strom:
So the content gap was that a lot of the existing marketing content was addressing more mid-size companies' needs and goals and concerns, but not the specific needs and concerns of people at enterprise size companies?
Ada Tsang:
Exactly. Exactly. It's actually a lot more common than you think. And I think a lot of times because there isn't always a dedicated marketing or field team for your enterprise accounts, so they end up just getting wrapped into what you're doing quarterly and in general with their marketing, like planning and digital. So I don't think it's anybody's fault. It's just resources are tight these days and a lot of times the enterprise accounts, they don't get that very specific support that they need.
Chris Strom:
What are some common messaging needs that people at enterprise companies are looking for versus more mid-size companies?
Ada Tsang:
That's a great question, Chris. I think one of them, I think definitely for enterprise, there are some boxes that you have to hit right away or you're not even going to get in the door and that is do you integrate some other enterprise software? Does your product have the privacy and data regulation and compliance that is needed? Because these enterprise, these could be like the JP Morgans or the Adobes, they will have very strict privacy and data compliance that actually your product might not even be compliant for. And if you do, do they know that?
And I think number two is, do they actually know you exist? And this hurts people's feelings a lot of the time, but a lot of times these global executives, they don't know that your company actually exists. They have everyone trying to sell to them all the time constantly. And we know it's very hard to get people's attention these days, so nevermind global executives at these massive companies. So to answer your question, number one is definitely the compliance and data and privacy of your product. And number two, do they know you actually exist?
I've seen places where the different teams in the company don't even know that they have you as a customer because they're just so big and these are thousands and thousands of employees, they don't actually know they have you as a customer. So that's step one right there.
Chris Strom:
Oh yeah, one division uses your product and the other division doesn't even know.
Ada Tsang:
Exactly. Or another division is using your competitor.
Chris Strom:
Interesting. So that's some of the messaging areas that you focus on. And then you mentioned silos and disconnected teams and systems within the company you're working with as well. How do those generally develop? What sort of disconnects and silos from a teams or tools or process standpoint do you see within the company?
Ada Tsang:
I'm sure it's very similar to what you see work with mid-market enterprise companies trying to sell an enterprise and the company you're selling into, they also have disconnected systems and data, but some really common ones, and it's actually not even that complicated. I feel like a lot of companies have these as well, and you just can't really believe it's also like that at the enterprise level. It's that the data, the base of the data is wholly inaccurate and you have thousands of marketer salespeople and leaders making budget decisions based on data that's inaccurate. That's number one. Number two, you have your go-to-market teams working off of different accounts because you think about marketing and sales or finance, depending who you're selling to, everybody has a different tech stack, so none of these are really tying together.
Sales have got outreach, marketing might have market on Tableau and you're all working off of different accounts. So from an ABM perspective, number one, if your teams are not even being off of the same accounts, you've already lost. It's really that simple. So for us, in the story we're talking about when we had to build out the infrastructure was figuring out, okay, how do we at least in our core go-to-market platforms make sure that we're actually going to be going after the same accounts, the accounts that we selected in part one? And when we received market feedback or their signals that everyone is also getting the same signals or feedback.
Chris Strom:
Yeah. And if you're at a 50-person company, that can be relatively simple, but if you're a 12,000 person company, even what sounds like simple things on paper takes a lot of work to roll out just from the sheer size of it.
Ada Tsang:
Exactly, exactly. And ABM's a long process. If you're trying to sell sick deals that are released, that takes at least six months and your company takes three months just to get some of your data more clean and get your go-to-market teams using the same accounts, you're already super behind on pipeline.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, that's a really good thing to point out. People don't realize it until they're already behind schedule.
Ada Tsang:
Exactly. And then they say, "Why didn't ABM work?" Well, it took us three months just to get the accounts in [inaudible 00:12:54] accounts, to get the data sorted.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, really. It's going to need another six months or longer to even start seeing results.
Ada Tsang:
Exactly.
Chris Strom:
All right. So that's some of the research and strategy development that you do to plan out the ABM campaign. And then let's talk about the next step then from there, which is building out all the infrastructure to run it.
Ada Tsang:
Yes. So now we have the insights. Now it's really, I think, doing the initial audit of, okay, what is going on right now? How are our field teams actually going after these accounts? Are our marketing teams using digital and their webinars and whatnot and these channels? Are they actually targeting the accounts and the people that your sales teams need? Because our job, and I say this to all my sales accounts, my job is to make your life easier when you're in the room so that when you're in the room, you can focus on selling and they already know about the product. They know what we do. They know how we solve their problems. They know we exist. These are warm conversations we're having here and you're not out here having to just spend time educating instead of selling.
So really building that infrastructure with RevOps and Ops is making sure we have... First, we can even identify those accounts. So I've seen places here where you have a key account that's number one, we got to win this deal, but in your system it's marked as not qualified or it's marked as ICP tier three. So these marketing teams, when you run events, they see a tier three, they're not going to prioritize them going to the events or the dinners. So that's problem number one is making sure that your key accounts and your enterprise accounts that you want to win, they're identified in Salesforce and whatever system you use so that it reflects the importance of the account.
So it sounds really simple and actually the technology itself and doing it is simple as I'm sure you know, but it's that getting everyone together, doing enablement and making sure that we're on alignment, these are the accounts and this needs to reflect in the systems.
Chris Strom:
When you get so many people in there and one person's importing this list and some other one person's ran this Salesforce flow and this other person plugged in clay and ran this process on it, you just have a lot of hands in the data and you might not even know who or why such and such account that should be a tier one is now showing up as a tier three, right?
Ada Tsang:
Exactly, exactly. And I've actually seen this a lot where we're supposed to invite, let's say, I'll think of a Purolator to a dinner and they're marked as tier three and now the dinner is full and they're not allowed to come and the VP at Purolator wants to come and now it's a whole kerfuffle that you got to solve and find space for Purolator.
Chris Strom:
And someone notices and they're like, "Why the heck did you deny that person? I've been trying to connect with them for four months now."
Ada Tsang:
Exactly, exactly. It's usually sales that notices, so that does not help the relationship that marketing has with sales as well.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, then they've damaged trust with you.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, exactly. That's a whole other topic I can talk about in another podcast as well, the marketing and sales partnership. So really the RevOps part is making sure you have the accounts reflected in the systems, and so you might actually need to create new Salesforce fields. For this pilot program, we did need to create new Salesforce fields, and the alignment starts at the top with sales leaderships, with your VP of sales, VP of enterprise sales, so that it can flow down into the field teams. If you don't have the alignment with sales from day one, you're going to run into a ton of challenges as well.
Chris Strom:
What sort of types of fields and processes are you building in Salesforce and other systems?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, so the one I mentioned was the account selection, so creating that tier of customer like, "Hey, this is a customer, here's tier one." Because right now, and customer, I think ABM is not something that's done a ton. Right now you have all your new business tiers and maybe your customer account tiers, but you don't have fields identified for, hey, this is for customer expansion and we're running customer programs, we're putting dollars to this, so that needs to be effective in the system. So that's one example, a simple field needs to be updated. Another one would be, of course, the reporting and dashboards. So common challenge, everyone's looking at a different report and the data could be inaccurate, so we're all making decisions off of no single source of truth.
So really fixing that and getting all... You can probably go on about this for the next 20 minutes too, right? So yeah, aligning the data across all the systems so that when we build out reporting and dashboards, there's that single source of truth. The third thing that we've done here is your key accounts and your enterprise ABM, it could be changing every six months to a year on who you're going after. We see a lot of turnover in enterprise accounts and a lot of movement with the team. So sometimes, hey, maybe this deal is on pause right now and we'll do some sort of marketing support, but it's not the first priority.
So we start a biannual selection review, so it's a process with marketing ops, with RevOps, with sales leaders, with the customer account leaders on hey, every six months we're going to update and review these accounts we're going after to ensure that these are still the strategic logos that we want to win and where we want to put dollars. So yeah, that's a new thing that we started is a bad annual review.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, that makes sense. Not just set it and forget it and you're just using the same tier lists for the next three years.
Ada Tsang:
Exactly.
Chris Strom:
All right, so that's some of what you do to build out the infrastructure to run the ABM campaign. And let's go to the exciting part now, which is the execution. Can you talk us through the execution process?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, definitely. So this is definitely the fun part. I would say it's the easy part in a way. So now you have the insights, you have your strategy, you have your operations, everything's set. Now it's time to go to market. You have the opportunities that you've identified from your discovery and you have your campaign messaging. Now it's how do we actually get these executives' attention and get them to know that we exist if they don't already do? Because remember I mentioned earlier, everybody is trying to sell to them. So what I found worked really well is you creating a hook and doing really creative storytelling and using that as your anchor to create multi-channel campaigns with sales.
These campaigns, you have to run it with sales. If you're only running it with marketing and you don't have a sales counterpart supporting you and outbound your SDR teams running the same teams, it's going to be a lot more challenging. Again, these deals take hundreds and hundreds of touch points, sometimes thousands, so it's really a marketing sales coordinated effort. So in terms of the channel campaign, for us, we've sold to MarTech, so our buyers are on LinkedIn, but for your buyers, whoever you're selling to, they might not be on LinkedIn, so the channels you use, you have to see where your customers, where your prospects and customers are.
And then we went into then tiering them, okay, these are our one-to-one accounts that I'm going to work very closely with the key account rep. We're building account plans together. This gets most of the dollars. Then you have one-to-few, these are the ones that you've identified. I know they have a common challenge, pain point or use case, and they're also very strategic, so we'll tier them a second set. Then you have your traditional one-to-many. What I've seen and added in the last couple years is adding a target ICP. So these are your global campaigns where you want awareness towards the entire list, and there's also a brand side. So what I've seen with enterprise is that you definitely need to have a brand they recognize and a brand that is good and need to make sure you're visible in your PR and all your other brand channels. Otherwise, it's very hard for them to get to trust you.
So that is the basis of the execution is the brand, and then you move up to your target ICP, which is your global campaigns, one-to-many, one-to-few, one-to-one. Again, they need to know you exist and then they know what you do. So these channels could be content, direct mail events, webinars, email, paid advertising. And my co-founder, he's done a lot of actually billboard traditional ads and geo advertising with events. So again, these channels, it depends on who your buyers are.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, that's interesting. That's a good point that you mentioned that you need to be running just broad general brand campaigns in addition to the ABM campaigns because otherwise they won't even recognize your name or even trust you.
Ada Tsang:
Yes. Yep, correct. So this is a joke I have, but you got to spend some money to make some money.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, exactly. So that's probably why you have companies like Salesforce running ads with Matthew McConaughey during the Super Bowl and things like that, right?
Ada Tsang:
Exactly, exactly.
Chris Strom:
Or sponsoring the PGA Pro Tour and things like that. Those are examples of a broader brand campaign that would then run alongside more specific ABM campaigns to specific key accounts?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, exactly. You need to have them, especially in this day and age where it's really hard to get people's attention. And again, these global executives are constantly being sold to, so you really have to have a way to stand out with your brand. And then if you've done the fundamental rights with the strategy discovery that we've done on sold enterprise challenges, you're more likely to be able to get them to notice you and to be in a room with you.
The second half of the execution actually that's really important is sales enablement. So again, if you don't work with sales, it is going to be very challenging. They're the ones signing the reps. They're the ones who is dealing with all the departments in enterprise sales because you probably have IT marketing, you might need to sell sales, depending on what you sell. There's always procurement, then there's always finance trying to come in and negotiate another contract.
So you're helping your sales team throughout the entire funnel, and you need to enable them on buying in on your strategy, making sure they know what programs are coming up, helping the reps one-on-one on try to get someone in a room. They will then also give you market feedback on how you need to optimize your campaign. Again, it's a symbiotic relationship that if done well, you can really reduce the deal cycle. You can really increase the contract value that you're selling.
Chris Strom:
Yeah. What are some of the components that go into the sales enablement side of it?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, I'm breaking this down myself right now, Sabel and my team. So step one, and I've learned this one of the early companies that I worked for, Allocadia, is one, including them in your planning. So as a marketer, obviously you're planning either year out or you're doing some planning, quarterly planning. So including them in your planning, your strategy and insights that you're using as to why you're creating these programs, getting them bought in early on, and they will then give you feedback from the field that you can incorporate into the campaign.
Now you both own the strategy and they want you to succeed because a good salesperson, especially in enterprise sales, they understand with good marketing that makes their job easier and they're more likely to close these multimillion dollar deals. It's a win-win-win for everybody. So yeah, number one, definitely including them in planning. Two, just making things easy for them. So again, they have a million pitches, decks. They have incredible targets. They currently always have to roll up to their leadership. They're also in the mud when they're working and trying to close accounts, they're managing their own SDRs. So just making everything easy for them when you need something from them, I think is also really important.
Again, that sounds simple and could probably go into more specific samples, but even the way you lay out your spreadsheet and how easy it is for them to give you information in a one-pager, things like that, that'll make them a lot easier for them to work with you.
Chris Strom:
Let's talk about the last phase of running an ABM campaign like this, which is measuring the results. Tell us about how you go about doing that.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, so definitely as part of the first phase, make sure you set your baseline metrics so you know whether you're on track against these or long programs, it'll take at least six months for you to see results. So I always like the first, the engagement metrics and the baseline because that tells you if you're on track, if people aren't starting to notice you. If you're starting to get mentioned in LLMs, if you are getting more visits to maybe you're making a micro site, if you're getting more people signing up to things and reading your content. So baseline engagement metrics.
And then second, having the baseline for your pipeline revenue because that's what we're all here for. So the ones I really like is your sales qualified lead has increased quarter over quarter, then it's your sales qualified lead to pipeline conversion. Are you converting more than you were before? And then you have your pipeline created, pipeline one, your deal velocity, how long did it take to close? Was it faster?
And the second piece, the third piece actually that has come out recently is you can potentially get some strategic partnerships with some of these logos, depending on your company, and that creates more brand affinity for you and more stickiness with your customer than you can get.
Chris Strom:
What would be an example of a strategic partnership with a new logo customer?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, so it depends on, like in MarTech at least, and it depends on your industry, how you could sit that. But if you already have, if you're working with a Salesforce on product integration or you can also run marketing with them because you have similar audiences, they can now become part of your partner program and they're your customer.
Chris Strom:
Maybe you do co-marketing together or even co-selling together possibly?
Ada Tsang:
Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So that feeds into your partner program, if you have one, or it can help start your partner program. I've seen that as well. They're more likely to stick with you if they're doing co-marketing with you and they use your product.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, that would be a whole podcast episode by itself if we wanted to get more into that.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, definitely, definitely. The third thing, so you have your engagement metrics, you have your pipeline metrics that you've impacted. You can also get create a product feedback loop because these are your largest customers and largest accounts. They can have a lot of product feedback that can help you get more enterprise logos. So what happened was there are times where we close lost and that's okay, you're not going to win every deal. But it gave us valuable feedback that we can use in other opportunities that we have and feedback into the product as to why we lost a certain enterprise account.
One feedback thing we got was that one of the big companies, they felt that we were great in North America, but not so much in Europe. And why is that? There's a couple of reasons that they give, and then now you can be like, okay, maybe we need to consider the product and how we saw that in EMEA.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, like specific weaknesses that maybe you didn't even know you had until they told you about it during the sales process, right?
Ada Tsang:
Exactly. And now your ABN team, they're helping you get more deals, close deals, they're getting you strategic partnerships, and now they're also giving feedback to your product.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, I know even for us on our team, the closed won deals are what keeps the company going, but it's the closed loss deals that you learn more from. We learn, and we can improve ourselves more from those.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, applies. Applies to a lot of places, just basic fundamentals.
Chris Strom:
Well, let's go to the last section of our talk here, which is you talked about how you've gone about building ABM campaigns for other companies. So for our listeners here, let's talk about if they want to do an ABM campaign themselves, what are the first steps to starting that themselves?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, I would say, and to list a few. I would say step one is just start with a smaller pilot first. And I think there's a couple of contingencies. One, you got to see if your company actually has the patience for it because you'll be spending resources, you might need people as well, and it takes time. Do you have the patience and time to actually commit to the program and to build it right and do it right? Number two, are you confident in your ICP and your product or service? Because if you're not, we're just going to end up spending all this time building a program and you're going to lose a bunch of deals.
So you got to make sure you have the right audience and your ICP and your buyer proposition and your product service is ready for a program like this. Third, do you have sales buy-in? Again, this is not just a marketing program, it's a marketing and sales program. It's a full go-to-market motion. Do you have that relationship with them? Do you have a trust with them? Are they bought in on doing something like this? From my experience, usually they are because telling them we're going to put resources on these specific accounts. But again, you need to have that relationship with sales. And yeah, if you have that-
Chris Strom:
And how would you say having a good working relationship with sales, would you say, is that more of a nice to have or is that more like a deal breaker, must have, don't even start it until you improve your relationship?
Ada Tsang:
I think ABM could help you build that relationship from the start. Ideally the dream would be that you already have that relationship, now everybody's going in on ABM. And again, it obviously starts at the marketing and sales leadership level, being on the same page and it depends on your attribution between marketing and sales. So there's quite a bit of factors, but yeah, the dream is that you already have the relationship and you both deciding that, "Hey, this go-to-market team is ready to do something like ABM. We're going to put money to it. We're going to dedicate time and effort and we're going to do it right and build it right from the start."
Definitely some of the companies I worked with didn't have the relationship from the start and ABM was kind of that facilitator because we're saying, "Hey, we're going to focus on your key accounts and your enterprise accounts and we're going to help you. Let's help us help you." So that could also work too.
Chris Strom:
Oh, okay. Interesting. So it can actually be a means of improving the relationship. I hadn't thought about that. So that'll be encouraging for a lot of people to hear. So it's not like don't start because we don't have the best relationship with sales. It's more like, no, if everything else looks good, go ahead and do it anyways and it might actually be a new tool to improve your relationship, right?
Ada Tsang:
Definitely. Yeah. I've seen this a lot, they end up wanting more marketing and more of your help and now everyone's flying and everyone's happy.
Chris Strom:
Okay. So determine if you have the patience for it, make sure that you actually have the right ICP so you're not just going in the wrong direction at all. At least start the process of working with sales. Don't let it stop you, but at least start the process of working with them. What are the next steps that someone should do when starting an ABM campaign of their own?
Ada Tsang:
Yeah. Well, I would start with a small pilot to test before committing a ton of resources. So I think there's two sides to it, the people side and the actual marketing budget to run your campaigns and program and digital advertising. Do you want your existing demand gen person perhaps to start doing ABM? Do you want to bring in somebody who already has that senior experience and can get going right away and then maybe train your team on it? How do you want it? Do you want to do it in-house or you want to bring on somebody? How much do you want to spend on that type of expertise?
From my experience is if you bring on someone more senior, you'll get results faster and you can go to market quicker, but they're working with your team to build it out and then they can basically train your team on how to do it. So kind of ABM enablement, I guess. And the second piece is with your pilot, just pick what's a comfortable budget, a realistic one. If you're trying to win $1 million deals, spending $10,000 is probably not enough. So figure out what that budget is you're comfortable testing and the duration of the pilot, I would say at least six months because you need to figure out the discovery strategy and actually spend time going to market.
If you already have a great brand, then that'll make things easier. And if you have content gaps, that will slow things down. So again, going through that process you mentioned earlier, but starting small with the pilot, pick a subset of accounts that you think could really easily... like you're confident if they know you could close some deals.
Chris Strom:
Yeah, and pick a smaller subset as a test ground and then if it's working, expand out from there.
Ada Tsang:
Exactly. Yep.
Chris Strom:
So there's some things for people to think through as they're starting their own ABM campaign. Is there anything else we should make sure we cover here?
Ada Tsang:
I guess with the store we're talking about, the program did work, customer ABM did work and we've scaled it. We even incorporated into some of the new business things. So it's something I'm very excited about because right now it's difficult to get new business. So if we can try to keep our customers and expand our customers, that's only going to be good for the company. So that's something I'm pretty proud of and excited about.
Chris Strom:
That's probably a great way to wrap up here by just telling people we've been talking about, yeah, it takes all this time, it takes all this labor and effort to build it and run it, takes patience, but it does in fact work and you have seen it work with your own eyes, it sounds like, right?
Ada Tsang:
Yes. Yes. I'm starting to do it a bit more with other companies, so excited to try to repeat the process. I think I'm a marketing diehard at heart. I went to school for this. So when I originally heard the hypothesis, I was like, this is probably going to work because you're the same principles of just focusing on core challenges and pain points that your customers have and you're running very similar things to new business. How would it not work? So yeah, we'll see. I'll keep you posted if it'll continue to work, but yeah, so far so good.
Chris Strom:
Awesome. That's great to hear. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to talk through all this with me, Ada. This was really a lot of learning for me here talking with you. I think everyone watching or listening to this will learn a lot too, so appreciate you taking the time to do this with me here.
Ada Tsang:
Yeah, thank you so much, Chris, for having me. It's great to be here and talk about this subject that I'm very passionate about. And good luck to everybody if you decide to enter into the ABM journey. And if you have any questions or anything, just feel free to hit me up on LinkedIn.
Chris Strom:
All right. Well, thanks again, Ada.
Ada Tsang:
Thank you. Thanks, Chris.
